Neal Girandola (00:00)
A rancher blacks out on the plains of Wyoming, no memory, no explanation, then lights, voices, and a message from what he called the star
that's just the
we're breaking down the story of Pat McGuire with special guest, David Ferrugio from the Dead Talks
no stranger to what happens when the unexplainable moves into your reality. Does he
going to find
another episode of Mostly True Alien
Neal Girandola (00:41)
Welcome back to Mostly True Alien Stories, a show where we explore real alien reported encounters exactly as they were documented and then try to decide if they're mostly true or mostly just a great story. I'm Neal Girandola and of course with me is my cohost Andrew Triana. What's
Android (00:56)
Hey Neal
Neal Girandola (00:56)
Our story today is a strange one. It's about a rancher in Wyoming who claimed he was in direct contact with alien beings.
Over time, those encounters led to everything from cattle mutilations and messages from a being named Michael.
to losing his ranch, running for governor and dying with nothing,
never backing down from what he said happened. I can't wait to get into this and joining us to dissect this
is the host of dead talks, David Ferrugio a podcast built around raw, unfiltered conversations about loss purpose and what might come next. After hundreds of interviews, his show has opened doors, not just to healing, but to deeper conversations about the afterlife human energy.
And yes, even aliens, I
excited to dive into all of it. Please welcome David Ferrugio to Mostly True Alien Stories. What's up, brother?
David Ferrugio (01:46)
What's up, man? That was smooth, way smoother than I expected.
Neal Girandola (01:49)
Yeah, yeah, I told you. I thought
one time through for this guy. Hey, Dave, got, I gotta ask, we always kick off as soon as we start. I gotta ask you, do you believe in extraterrestrial life on other planets?
David Ferrugio (01:53)
Thanks for having me.
Neal Girandola (02:01)
I think you have to be careful with your answer because you never know what it leads to, right?
David Ferrugio (02:01)
Yes.
Why do I have to be careful with my answer?
Neal Girandola (02:07)
Well, I don't know, because you're always talking about death, you probably have a stance on all of this, and I can't wait to find out.
if there's aliens exist and you believe in
It changes a lot, doesn't it?
David Ferrugio (02:19)
Yes, yeah, I know. definitely believe in it. I believe in it, but it's also just the sheer probability aspect of it. I'm like, as big as everything is, it's hard for me to think that we're the only ones here. And now with all,
the more more evidence that seems to be coming out, or stories, if you will, it just makes me more of a believer. And ⁓ yeah, I definitely don't think we're alone.
Neal Girandola (02:40)
know, Andrew does not believe in
he does he does not think that there's a life on other planets.
David Ferrugio (02:43)
Sick.
Android (02:45)
Sorry.
Neal Girandola (02:47)
Andrew?
David Ferrugio (02:47)
Why?
Android (02:48)
don't.
Neal Girandola (02:49)
That's a really great answer. You're really good on podcasts.
David Ferrugio (02:49)
That's fair. That's fair. Yeah.
Well, I acknowledge that. I'm also acknowledged. I'm not saying, that definitely is. But I feel like it's, mean, to me, if I had to pick from a probability standpoint, yeah, well, how the hell, why are we the only ones here?
Neal Girandola (03:02)
Yeah, I agree. I just there's no way and you know what? can't wait till the day comes when it is revealed that we are there are Aliens
well this podcast will
Android (03:09)
gonna say I told you so?
Neal Girandola (03:11)
for one
David Ferrugio (03:11)
I hope
he gets abducted. That'd be the best case scenario.
Neal Girandola (03:14)
my God, that'd be best. That'd be best. Yeah, it really is. Hey, you your podcast is really, it is a unique stage for the death conversation.
Android (03:15)
I would love it.
Neal Girandola (03:24)
actually been an inspiration to me and what we're trying to do with this podcast, even though we talk about aliens and you talk about death, because of...
your format and, you do move the needle for so many
you're all over the spectrum.
You talk
fake realities. You talk about simulations, afterlife, all of that, even religion.
your dad passed away in the nine 11 attacks, right? Is it okay to talk about
David Ferrugio (03:49)
No,
absolutely not. Don't ever bring that up again.
Neal Girandola (03:50)
for a moment.
exactly
that
was is that sort of the antithesis for you to create this podcast because it's such a unique platform.
David Ferrugio (03:58)
Yeah, I mean, there's a lot of layers to it. Definitely my dad dying when I was 12 in the towers. That was a big inspiration many years later, you know, the process of experiencing death and before that, but that was the big one, if you will. So it was honestly a blend of realizing how internalized I was about things and how important me eventually opening up was healthy for me and my family, I believe. And just understanding not only for my personal experience of internalized and how a lot of people are around.
losing people, but also just the conversation of death. I just noticed no one talks about the one certainty in life. The one thing we're all sharing. People say death and taxes, but some people don't even pay taxes. So it's like, why are we avoiding the one thing that we all have in common? Yeah, it's scary, but it should be something that, you know, we see it as ⁓ an odd bonding experience. And so I wanted to normalize the conversation, but also shed the light on other people. Because since my dad died on such a public forum,
I always and still constantly get the attention every anniversary because who the hell forgets 9-11. I guess if you're in Australia, is that technically 9-12? What was the timing on that? Anyway, it doesn't matter. ⁓ I think that the fact that I got all the attention was like, what about the other people that lose people every day on a normal Tuesday? And so it was kind of a back and forth of the idea that death just isn't talked about conversationally and just.
not insensitively, but just conversationally, and also wanted to shed the light on all these other people that are going through the same thing.
Neal Girandola (05:25)
it was surprising to me, then after you really think about it, makes sense that there were so many people, you have such a following, what, over 300,000 subscribers to your podcast that it just says that people needed to talk about this, that they want to hear this. They want this conversation to
in what you do.
David Ferrugio (05:45)
100%.
It's just become an exploration. That's why, you my conversations are, there's a lot of grief for sure and various types of grief, but I've explored different avenues as you alluded to in regards, I've had true crime, I've had mafia, war, I've had, you know, estate planners coming on. I've had people that things I don't believe coming on. That's the whole point. So it's just to create dialogue. And, you know, I've noticed a lot that people, whenever it goes against people's beliefs, people...
Neal Girandola (06:05)
Mm-hmm.
David Ferrugio (06:11)
get offended when it comes to afterlife or religious conversations. But to me, that's even more of a reason to push the needle and just put stories out there and let people think. think, I think that that's one thing that we're losing in society as many ways, especially with AI and think people and doing things for us, we're losing the capacity to think for ourselves. And I think by putting not controversial stuff that shouldn't be controversial, but yeah, controversial conversations, just by putting out different beliefs. And you guys are kind of doing that in different ways. You're kind of, you know,
removing the veil, whether things are true or not, let people decide on their own, think on their own. And by pushing the needle with afterlife and religion and how to cope with certain things and how people do it differently, I feel like just even if when I have these guests that say something you don't agree with, just by listening to something you don't agree with stems new ideas and new thoughts in your own neural capacity. And that creates new ideas within yourself. So it's just
I just, love diverse conversations, whether I believe in it or not. And I'll talk to people that have different ideologies with, and I think that's just an important thing to converse about, even if it's death or something else.
Neal Girandola (07:11)
Well, to that point, what has been the most notable conversation that you've had regarding death and let's get really specific and what happens after you die?
David Ferrugio (07:21)
Yeah, I mean, the near death experience ones opened my eyes. I haven't, I never dove into these conversations until I had the podcast. So listening to near death experiences and how many there are and how many testimonies there are, even my own mother had an experience. so seeing it from the, from a little distance from my guests and seeing similarities and the differences and people in the comments section and hearing all these different vantage points, it's either, you know, I try to be real like
I try to look at my street sense, my logical brain and just being open to it. Like, what is it? Was everyone lying? Even statistically, was everyone bullshitting and everyone's looking for attention. There's people that don't make money off this. There's people that make money off it. Then anytime someone brings up God or the Bible, they automatically dismiss it. Like, why are you automatically dismissing that? Maybe there's an answer to it. So the near death experience ones tend to be the most fascinating for me. And I've opened my eyes to just different possibilities and looking at it at the lens of skepticism, but also, you know,
Neal Girandola (07:53)
Yeah, yeah.
David Ferrugio (08:19)
trying to see is this maybe real and to me, it's hard for me to argue not and it's all anecdotal. So there's a lot of people that want to go with the court of law, but maybe there's a possibility that some things are just at this moment, incomprehensible and you got to go a little bit of faith based and try to trust people. But until you have your own experience, which I haven't had, but the closest I had was my mom who's not, I know she's on bullshitting. She had an experience and even she's like, I don't know what that was, but it was real. So we're supposed to just dismiss it based on your
concrete foundations that you just don't believe it? No, am I with that?
Neal Girandola (08:50)
What has been the most common thread in ⁓ near death or, you know, coming back from dying? ⁓ What has been the most common thread in terms of that explanation of what is happening?
David Ferrugio (08:55)
Hmm
There's a few. mean, I might go a little ranty on this, just kind of putting it all together. Definitely some, most people don't want to come back because it's just so incomprehensible, amazing on that side. When they do, some people go through rough patches for sure, but when they get to the other side, quote unquote, it's just a incomprehensible feeling of just euphoria. And they don't, most people don't want to come back. So there's usually like a near death experience hangover of depression coming back to this hell, if you want, of earth. A couple other ones is that we chose this life.
Neal Girandola (09:14)
Wow. Yeah.
Wow.
David Ferrugio (09:32)
which is another one that people in this human meat robot that we are just can't comprehend. Why would I choose this? Why would I choose the suffering? Again, to me, it's just, I just don't think we'd comprehend it because yeah, on paper, am I going to choose my dad to die in 9-11 and the suffering that we see in this world? But I just think it's incomprehensible that the idea that why would we choose this life? But according to several Dear Death experiences, some I've had on my Git podcast, some I've just heard, we actually chose this life. And there's reasons deeper than that as to why we would choose it that.
Neal Girandola (09:44)
All
David Ferrugio (10:00)
kind of makes sense to me if we were trying to go deeper. ⁓ Outside of that, those are probably the two main ones for the most part.
Neal Girandola (10:08)
into that topic there's those conversations that you have like with Neil deGrasse Tyson and Billy Carson and they lean into a really crazy approach to life as it is right there's talks of simulation there's conversations
your incarnations and so on and so forth just from this podcast and just knowing you know
what I believe in and what I love. I love that kind of conversation about life and you know, and death, when it comes to that, does that strike a chord with you at all?
David Ferrugio (10:43)
mean, I don't think it's hard to dispute at all because at the end of the day, no one knows. So who's one person to say the other? In my opinion, yeah, Neil deGrasse and even Billy, they're very smart people. I wouldn't compare those two at all, to be honest. I think they're in complete different sides of the spectrum. know, Neil definitely goes on a more scientific approach in regards to evidential aspects of what's going on. And just because we don't have like a lack of evidence isn't evidence at the same time.
Neal Girandola (10:48)
Yeah.
David Ferrugio (11:09)
So remember when I had Neil on, I asked him about this, that and the other with the afterlife. And his explanation was, do you remember what it was like before you were born? And he goes, exactly. That's what it's like when after you die. I'm like, that's not proof either. always that people always say the, the, the proof is on the people that believe in after like, yes, I guess, but it's also on the other side. Prove to me there's not just cause like, that's not a theory.
Neal Girandola (11:09)
Mm-hmm.
But he's so
confident when he says something like that. Yeah. Yeah.
David Ferrugio (11:33)
Well, everyone's confident in their beliefs. think, I think a lot of people
Android (11:35)
Right.
David Ferrugio (11:35)
attach their, make their beliefs part of them. And then when went like me, I like to keep it separate. Like I'm David and then there's my beliefs, but I try to keep it malleable cause I don't, I don't know. And there's some things that my foundations and yada yada, but based on all these conversations, I realized so many people have different ideas and thoughts and beliefs, or maybe some people know, you know, what about the possibility that people, some, maybe some people just know, maybe they just sound crazy, but, and
Maybe they maybe some of these people that mediums and have these experience, maybe they're right, but we don't know. So I don't think there's any experts on this topic. Maybe some are experts, we just can't validate it. But at the same time, you know, I don't agree with what Neil, don't kind of came to say I don't agree. I just don't find alignment with the idea that just because we don't remember before we were born, because my thought with that is hypothetically, we did. So hypothetically, there was a before there is a before and after. And we did remember what it was like before, even though some
Neal Girandola (12:06)
Maybe they're aliens.
David Ferrugio (12:30)
kind of do because of past lives and a other rabbit hole. We, how are we able to operate? Like my thing is I, it would make sense to me if I'm just having fun with the conversation that we would need an amnesia before coming in here, because how are we supposed to have this experience as a human if we've remembered everything before? Like we wouldn't, we wouldn't be able to operate in my opinion, as a human, if I knew everything that was before and after, like in my head, makes more sense trying to have fun with the conversation to have, we need an amnesia to be David. We need an amnesia to be Neil. Like you need that amnesia. So for him just to say,
that just because we don't remember before, that's what it's like going to be after. That's just a guess.
Neal Girandola (13:04)
Well, what makes you feel better about where your dad may be? What's your thought when you think about him where he is? Yeah.
David Ferrugio (13:11)
Yeah, I just think he's good. Whether he's
in that realm, still my dad. think he's, that's where like the multiverse thought comes in. Like even though he's my dad, but then there's, if there's multiple lives, people have a conversation, the guy that had a near death experience and he didn't, we didn't agree on the aspect of reincarnation. didn't believe in reincarnation. ⁓ He did believe in an afterlife. He was like, yeah, your dad's always your dad. Yes, I agree with that, but that doesn't.
Neal Girandola (13:18)
Yes, yeah.
David Ferrugio (13:34)
Maybe he was someone else and another part of if we had past lives, he was someone else. But I think again, it goes to this incomprehensibility where he's, yeah, still my dad, but still there's other people if you will, whether he's a brother or friend or whatever it was, because there was a book, Many Lives, Many Masters. I don't know if you guys read that book. Dr. Weiss, I won't rant on it too long, but to cover it up so much. had a patient that he has transcripts and recorded the episodes where the whole book was just him and his patient and she was having issues in this world.
Neal Girandola (13:51)
haven't.
David Ferrugio (14:04)
And he kept doing hypnosis to bring her back further and further in her life. And he thought he healed her. Didn't when he usually does. This guy was institutionalized. He did the highest curriculum of all these Ivy League schools, believed in scientific process, didn't believe or know anything about past lives. Didn't believe it. He assumed she was schizophrenic when he got her to a place beyond three years old. He what's going to happen before three? How much deeper can I go? Then apparently, spoiler alert, it took her through like these, she took him through these 80 plus lives.
And he thought she was schizophrenic. it came through this whole process and she had all these different lives, but the same people within those lives were in her life today, just in different fashions. whether he was always a teacher, a teacher in her life. He always showed up. It didn't look like him, but she was able to recognize it as him, if that makes sense. And so back to your first question, I just, in a short period, I just think, I think it's good. I truly believe and feel with the option of maybe I'm wrong.
Neal Girandola (14:34)
Wow.
Yeah.
Android (14:51)
Wow, that's...
David Ferrugio (15:00)
that everything I've heard, all these stories, all these testimonies, we're just good. And it's like a safety net. It's like crossing the thin line at a circus and you're gonna fall, but it's just gonna be
Neal Girandola (15:05)
Yeah.
a heaven thought. It's not a...
Because when I think about my parents, when I think about my parents, who I lost ⁓ a few years ago, my first thought about them is
David Ferrugio (15:12)
Yeah. ⁓
Neal Girandola (15:23)
actually into another life
I don't know if that makes sense, but it's just one of those things that actually makes me feel good about, you know, losing them and help. It does help with that. ⁓ in a sense.
David Ferrugio (15:33)
Yeah, I think I
don't know about heaven in like the biblical sense or how other religions may say this place maybe I think I think it's more a feeling like I don't like what I've heard from other people at hell isn't real but the feeling and that frequency that we might be in might be real because I've seen near death experience where people felt like it was hell ⁓ but I don't know if it's like a place of damnation where you can't get out and fire and brimstone and yada yada yada I just think ⁓ maybe depending on
Neal Girandola (15:46)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
David Ferrugio (15:57)
your soul's journey in the life we lived, you might go to a place that feels bad. And that sort of seems like more of a feeling. So I think maybe the heaven that we're told in texts is just a feeling. Because again, it was always a feeling, but there were visuals. So I think a heaven kind of exists, but it's maybe not like the golden pearl gates. I just think we're just energy and it just becomes an incomprehensible feeling that we can't really understand.
Neal Girandola (16:09)
Yeah.
When it comes to the psychic mediums, you had a couple, you have some episodes out there where you've spoken to
you believe that there is ⁓ a place for that in healing and helping people ⁓ deal with
David Ferrugio (16:37)
Yeah, I think it's fine. think it just depends. know, there's I think there's swindlers and grifters everywhere. So you got to be careful. There's definitely shady mediums and whatnot. But the shady accountants, there's shady, shady everyone. So you just got to kind of keep your fucking ears open, not be too vulnerable. But I've heard so many too many stories of people in my life that have and I know mediums I'm friends with that I know them. You know what I mean? Like I know them and I trust them. And I've heard too many good stories of healing. Yeah. But sometimes I get the
Neal Girandola (16:48)
No. Right.
David Ferrugio (17:05)
listen to yourself and not force it. I feel like if someone just died, you need to connect. You might be a little more, your brain's not operating in the right way where I think emotionally you might be reaching too much. It's got to feel right. I wouldn't rush that in. Maybe it's not right for everyone. I think it's a hundred percent real. I've had experiences myself that again, it's anecdotal that it's just like, try to, every time these experiences happen, I try to disprove it. I try to disprove it before approving it just for my own, the way my brain works.
And then sometimes it's just a decision based on the evidence you have at hand, like which is more probable as opposed to proving it. But some things happen that are just unexplainable. again, a personal experience I had, I was like, this is too spot on. The timing of it, what this woman said to me when my mom was almost, was nearly dead. It was like, I don't know how else to explain it. So I think it can be healing, but I think people should be weary and listen to themselves and not force it and don't assume anything.
Neal Girandola (17:58)
slightly alien, you know, it's just, it really is. It's just, it's weird. Hey, if aliens land tomorrow, it'll affect theology for sure, right? It's going to change a lot of thoughts on how we do approach death, afterlife, you know, and all these conversations that you have ⁓ in all your shows.
David Ferrugio (17:59)
It's slightly alien.
Android (18:03)
Yeah.
Neal Girandola (18:18)
How do you think that would affect ⁓ what people believe in
David Ferrugio (18:23)
I think it just opens the mind of infinite possibilities. So I think by understanding there's more, if that was a real thing, if it was proven, we met an alien, shook their hand, placed checkers with them, whatever, then it's like, shit, there's way more than I thought. And then I think just the idea of knowing there's more, like a real true knowing there's more as opposed to a faith-based ideology, it just automatically makes you question everything else you believed in. I think that questioning will be the biggest effect.
And I think it just might open your mind. like, I know nothing. And that's why from this podcast is like the more, the more I learn as cliche as is the less I know. And I'm just, I just try to keep my mind open to possibilities. If there was aliens that left on it. Like my question is, then in the afterlife question, are we all, if the afterlife is, are we all just go to the same place or is there an afterlife just for aliens? Are we all the same? Like what, happens from there? So yeah, I think it just opens Pandora's box to like restarting our beliefs, if you will.
Neal Girandola (19:17)
you know, there's those conversations at the end,
created us as, as slaves to mine gold for them. And, and that's, yeah. And that's where that's why we exist today.
David Ferrugio (19:25)
Beautiful.
Neal Girandola (19:29)
Andrew, what do you think?
Android (19:30)
Well, there's also the theory that the ⁓ the Anunnaki are ⁓ fallen angels that were cast down from heaven that enslaved people and then therefore God wasn't happy with that and then the flood came and they all were destroyed. They all were killed during the flood. That's the theology in a nutshell, basically. That was why he flooded the
So.
David Ferrugio (19:55)
They came to mine
gold, you said, specifically?
Neal Girandola (19:57)
Yeah, specifically for gold.
Android (19:58)
Yeah, they used us to mine their
gold. Yeah, I don't know what they were doing with the gold. Building temples to themselves. They don't really get into that.
Neal Girandola (20:02)
us.
David Ferrugio (20:04)
So they must be pissed about
Bitcoin if we're going off the gold standard.
Neal Girandola (20:07)
they're so angry about it. They're so angry.
David Ferrugio (20:10)
or they're invested in it, one or the other.
Android (20:12)
you guys were talking about the whole good, so Davey, you're like, know, your dad's in a good place. I also have lost both my parents, my mom and dad, and you talked about the people that had that bad feeling. And to me, makes a lot of sense, whether it's heaven or hell. I think the bad feeling is not being able to be part of that
knowing that it's there, but you can't be part of it.
David Ferrugio (20:38)
it's interesting because I want the one I haven't released the episode yet, but this guy had a near death, wasn't religious at all. Couldn't believe any of that. And he got to this place, but there's so many other wild details about being out of his body, yada, yada. But he was in this place where he's like, David, was, felt I wasn't in this fire and brimstone, but it was the worst feeling of my life. was, I've been through some shit, but this was despair and sorrow, this depth that he could not do it where at some point he, I mean, he remembers be consciously thinking.
of I say, I can't do it anymore. need to get, I when he's at the absolute pit of not being able to sustain this feeling, that's when it broke through and he went to this heavenly place, quote unquote, for lack of better words. So to me, it's almost just, again, back to the consistent, ⁓ the patterns that I've learned that I didn't mention is like, everything's a lesson. We're literally, this is all school and it's, it's, this is all school. The bad, the good, the ugly for our, whatever's next in that afterlife. It's part of this process. That's why, know, when you said there's a next life, maybe there is, the work doesn't stop.
There's more transcendence, there's more work to be done, but we have to feel these emotions. And I took that from his experience. he had to go to this hell to make this realization and then go to this great place. But then to come back to it again, to see what this is like and kind of give him a nudge of showing him a little bit in order to change kind of thing. But he was in this hellish place that again, wasn't fire and brimstone. It was just feeling.
Android (21:58)
almost like the Ebenezer Scrooge. mean, it's almost that whole thing. You get a chance, a second chance or a third
Neal Girandola (21:57)
You're a j-
Android (22:03)
Just be better.
Neal Girandola (22:03)
That's not a real
story. It's not a real story.
David Ferrugio (22:05)
Yes, it is now. He's a real person. He was a Christian.
Android (22:08)
Dude,
you been man? Ebenezer Scrooge. Come on!
Neal Girandola (22:12)
David, I can't thank you enough for coming on the show today. We're going to before we get into the featured story today, though, I want to do a little tradition with you just based on everything we just talked about. I think this would be fun for
We're going to do a little rapid fire. It's called Mostly True or Not. I'm going to hit you with a few rapid fire claims from
don't know, that could be weird. could be, could be something we already could be a little redundant, but maybe not. You may have a different answer and no answer is a wrong answer. So we're going to, I'm going to, right. There's no explanations. There's no, and you don't need a lifeline on this. It just gut instinct. All right. Are you ready? All right, here we go. Let's get it together.
David Ferrugio (22:37)
Sick.
Android (22:38)
Alright.
David Ferrugio (22:43)
Alright, let's fuck.
Neal Girandola (22:47)
who die and come back saw aliens, not
true or not.
You're saying not true.
Android (22:53)
Not true. He didn't stutter, dude.
David Ferrugio (22:53)
Thank you.
Neal Girandola (22:56)
but you're saying to sell so you're saying you're saying if they see if they see something it's an angel. What are they? I will I I would love what no, I mean we can rapid fire this but I want to know a little bit like if they've seen something after because you Right people tell you they see stuff when they die What what is it that you think that they're actually seeing?
David Ferrugio (22:56)
Should I not say false? Let's specifically say natural.
Android (23:08)
What's that?
David Ferrugio (23:19)
I think that's a human title. think, yeah, maybe from back on earth, like, they saw aliens, but to them and their perspective, you know, they just saw this being an energy that they don't title as aliens or angels.
Neal Girandola (23:28)
OK, that's fair.
Android (23:28)
It's not aliens.
David Ferrugio (23:28)
Next question,
Android (23:29)
He says
David Ferrugio (23:29)
please.
Android (23:29)
it's not aliens. Come on, dude. Come on. You're just trying to get him to say it could be aliens.
Neal Girandola (23:31)
It's a fair question.
a secret government
David Ferrugio (23:33)
don't want your propaganda.
Neal Girandola (23:36)
It's totally- It's totally aliens, by the way, guys. It's totally aliens.
Android (23:35)
Yeah, your alien propaganda.
David Ferrugio (23:39)
Is this podcast
sponsored by Pfizer? Because I'm out.
Android (23:43)
It's not, it's Moderna. It's Moderna. Even better.
David Ferrugio (23:45)
Either way,
I'm pure blooded for anyone that's going to unfollow me or not, so I don't have to tell you.
Neal Girandola (23:51)
Alright, there's a secret government program where mediums communicate with extraterrestrials, mostly true or not.
David Ferrugio (23:59)
Not mostly true, straight true.
Neal Girandola (23:58)
I like that. You're right to it. I
it is straight true. I agree. I agree with you. We've talked about it. We've talked about the, the remote viewers and mediums. That's all in that line. CIA is loaded with that. No, no. You and I, Andrew. Yes. Yeah.
Android (24:01)
Dang.
Wait, you guys met before the podcast to talk about this? That's not how this works. ⁓ me and you. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you and I have,
David Ferrugio (24:09)
Hell yeah.
Wait, you guys met
before the podcast? That's not how this works.
Android (24:19)
No, it's not.
Neal Girandola (24:20)
Hahaha. ⁓
Alright,
this one?
and aliens are just different frequencies of the same energy.
David Ferrugio (24:27)
Mostly true.
Neal Girandola (24:28)
love how open-minded you are about all this because you
are not like, no, death is this because of all the people I've talked to, I know what death is. Death is
And so angels and aliens are completely different,
and aliens you're saying are just different frequencies of the same energy.
David Ferrugio (24:47)
Different frequencies, but energy is energy, in my opinion. Maybe there's just different levels to
Neal Girandola (24:51)
Okay, one more. There's life after death, but it might not be human. Mostly true or false.
David Ferrugio (24:57)
⁓ true.
Neal Girandola (24:59)
I knew you gonna say true.
Android (24:59)
Yeah, that's true.
Come on, you gave him that one. That's a softball.
Neal Girandola (25:02)
I did, I
teed them up. I teed them up on that. It is
David Ferrugio (25:03)
Yeah, you teed me up. Never played T-ball, but you teed me up.
Neal Girandola (25:07)
Are you ready to get into our story for
dissect this
David Ferrugio (25:10)
let's do it.
Neal Girandola (25:11)
right, here's how it works. I'm going to walk us through the full account of an alien encounter exactly as it was
David Ferrugio (25:11)
Let's dissect.
Neal Girandola (25:16)
the three of us are going to break it down and decide if this one is mostly true or if there is something else at work
And as always, we want to hear from our listeners, so just drop your verdict in the comments as well. And don't forget to subscribe, follow, and share the show. All right, here we
It was early 1970s, a Wyoming rancher, Pat McGuire, he began experiencing a series of unexplained events that would come to define his
On October 1st, 1973, during a hunting trip near Bozler, Wyoming, McGuire and his brother-in-law observed an
orange glow in the sky. They felt an eerie presence and experienced several hours of missing time before returning to their
incident marked the beginning of McGuire's encounters and subsequently McGuire reported frequent sightings of strange lights and metallic objects hovering silently over his ranch. And they were often moving in ways that defied conventional explanations according to the report. And he also discovered cattle mutilations on his property.
with animals found dead and specific body parts removed with surgical precision and often without any blood at the
In an effort to understand these experiences, McGuire underwent hypnosis sessions with Professor Leo Sprinkle. He's a very well-known psychologist at the University of Wyoming known for his work with individuals reporting UFO
spoken about this guy a number of
hypnosis, Maguire described being taken aboard a spacecraft and interacting with tall, thin beings who communicated telepathically. He also recounted being instructed to drill a well and plant barley, which he did, and it resulted in the largest artesian well ever dug in Wyoming. That's a feat that was considered improbable given the area's geology.
So now McGuire attributed his success to guidance from an entity he referred to as Michael, whom he described as an alien
despite these extraordinary claims, McGuire faced significant personal and financial challenges. His accounts attracted media attention, but also skepticism and ridicule, and it led to emotional isolation and eventual financial ruin. And then he eventually lost his ranch.
and he died penniless in 2009 at the age of 67.
is the
if you have anything you would like to add into this, if you know this story at
invite you guys now to add in your thoughts and fill in some blanks for us and our listeners, and then we can dive into whether we think this is mostly true or
Is this the first time you heard this story?
David Ferrugio (27:56)
Yeah, I mean, outside of the little bit of readup I did when you sent me it.
Yes, cool. Yeah, it's wild. I've heard the consistencies of those animal mutilation. But then once you specify that the aliens were tall and thin and they're taking specific body parts, maybe the aliens are just super vain. And this is like plastic surgery, an extra terrestrial world.
Neal Girandola (28:00)
Yes. Right.
David Ferrugio (28:16)
That was a joke guys,
Android (28:16)
Okay.
David Ferrugio (28:17)
come on, what the fuck? I made it really awkward. I wasn't serious
Android (28:19)
They're taking cows, sex organs and their noses
David Ferrugio (28:19)
about that.
Neal Girandola (28:20)
Yeah, but we could've gone with that.
Android (28:23)
for plastic surgery. I love it. I love it.
David Ferrugio (28:25)
Yeah, they said tall and thin, thin lips. Maybe it's like a whole different world of what beauty is over there. I've heard other stories, I can't reference them, but the cattle mutilation seems to be a thing. And also that well story is pretty interesting. That kind of brings me back to that whole.
Neal Girandola (28:22)
could've rolled with this.
Ha
David Ferrugio (28:42)
It almost brings me back maybe in a terrible correlation to when you go back to the pyramids and how those are built. it seems like these aliens are sprinkling a little bit of knowledges to progress this a little bit. Maybe they're sprinkling a little information for us to figure out, but giving us little checkpoints of information. I don't know what.
Neal Girandola (28:57)
But why not just download
all that information to all of us all at once and just get it over with.
David Ferrugio (29:01)
because then I think that'd be
too much. If they're gonna advance us and give us everything they have, then all of sudden we're competing with them.
Neal Girandola (29:08)
They hate competition.
David Ferrugio (29:08)
It's like the government,
they're not giving us everything, they're giving us a little bit just so that we can be at their helm.
Neal Girandola (29:12)
I don't know if I'm buying into that one. I think it because I always say it is, but but everything, everything Andrew and I always talk about is like, I think the the aliens have the
Android (29:15)
Okay.
David Ferrugio (29:15)
Which
one? Everything I said was ridiculous.
Neal Girandola (29:24)
business management sense ever and in the world and they don't just they just they don't really sit down and talk about, Hey, would it make sense if we go down to this dude in Wyoming and have him build a well?
Android (29:27)
team ever.
Neal Girandola (29:36)
And they're all like, yeah, that's brilliant.
David Ferrugio (29:36)
Well,
but why aren't there was just the right is just maybe I'm mixing the two stories. Is this where it got really strange? Mention like the Israeli flags or something like that is the same story.
Neal Girandola (29:46)
I don't know anything about those flags, ⁓
Android (29:47)
Nah, I don't know anything about Israeli flags. didn't find
David Ferrugio (29:48)
You guys, did you
Android (29:49)
anything in my...
David Ferrugio (29:49)
not read, did you read the article that you sent me?
Neal Girandola (29:51)
I send you an article about Israeli flags?
David Ferrugio (29:54)
Did you read the full article about the story you're talking about? You sent me an article to go to a deep dive. Did you read it?
did you send me the wrong link because all right, you guys keep talking. I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna know because that that shit got that shit got weird. That's I'm saying like that was the part
Android (30:02)
He's ready to talk about it. He's ready to talk about Israeli flights.
David Ferrugio (30:09)
by me some time.
Neal Girandola (30:09)
did you find?
But it's related to his Pat
David Ferrugio (30:13)
which guy we were talking about the Maguire guy, which one we're talking about? Okay, so I'm just reading one one paragraph real quick. The star people warned of a coming climate change, climate apocalypse. They instructed Maguire where to dig for a well the star people promised they would bring an underground river from Canada to his ranch if he flew the Israeli flag over his property.
Neal Girandola (30:15)
Yep. Pat McGuire from Wyoming.
Android (30:15)
Yes, McGuire, McGuire.
Wow.
David Ferrugio (30:31)
Do you guys, it like you guys didn't, you sent me an article for me to bring my own due diligence, but you guys didn't read the article.
Neal Girandola (30:35)
We wanted you to
Android (30:35)
I think
Neal Girandola (30:35)
do the research. We wanted you to do it.
Android (30:36)
so, yeah, you, you, you, that's a spoiler. That's a huge spoiler. Wow.
David Ferrugio (30:39)
Because McGuire
would talk McGuire would talk about the star man named Michael, as you guys mentioned, who instructed him to father 13 children, one for every tribe of Israel. When his wife
Android (30:44)
Yep.
David Ferrugio (30:50)
at number nine, he divorced her and married a woman named Lynn talking about a six day war, but specifically the the Israeli flag. So what the fuck?
Android (30:59)
Wow.
Neal Girandola (31:00)
Now, so this is interesting, because I actually missed that. I did miss that.
Android (31:02)
this is deep dive. I didn't
David Ferrugio (31:04)
Honestly, you missed that. What do you know? The sky's blue. How do you miss the Israeli
Android (31:05)
you know what it. And Dave I got it.
He didn't he didn't send that article to me- but I the stuff that I found it find anything about Israeli flag that's
Neal Girandola (31:10)
We're,
Android (31:16)
what I did find out is that he did divorce his wife and then he did have thirteen children.
he was instructed by the aliens to have. Thirteen children they told him
also.
had told him that they were monitoring his
and there was a severe drought that was happening during that time. So they told him to dig a well and so he dug a
what's weirder than all of this is that the way he described Michael was the same way that Carl Higdon described also one in a black leather outfit with a star that looks similar to the star David Beltbuckle.
Neal Girandola (31:44)
Also one? Really?
Android (31:53)
And it just reminds me of Mel Brooks' History of the World Part One. Jews in
I mean, the Jews are in space.
David Ferrugio (31:59)
So they got space in the entertainment industry. It's crazy.
Android (32:01)
going to give you a little bit more about Pat McGuire.
said that he dealt with a series of different abductions that happened between 1973 and 1980.
later on they discovered that it was only 1973 to 1977. And the crazy thing is that none of his family, not one person in his family believed him.
And in the community, he was known by everybody as an honest rancher. He was a good guy. Everybody talked about
he wanted to know more. He wanted to understand what was happening.
Neal Girandola (32:32)
he has 13
Were they all living with him?
David Ferrugio (32:34)
One for each tribe of Israel.
Neal Girandola (32:36)
all making sense now. I wish I really researched this.
David Ferrugio (32:39)
Mean I felt bad not researching enough and I'm bringing up the Israeli thing. So it's interesting Thank you for coming on my show guys appreciate it
Android (32:41)
Wow, wow. ⁓
Neal Girandola (32:42)
⁓ Yeah, yeah, you
Android (32:46)
So.
Neal Girandola (32:49)
guys are great.
Android (32:50)
so he went under hypnosis by Dr. Leo Sprinkles, who we know, who did this hypnosis on Carl Higdon.
Neal Girandola (32:53)
Sprinkle.
Android (32:56)
And while
under hypnosis,
said that
tried to shoot one of the aliens,
they paralyzed
the neck down
they made him sit there and watch whatever. And then they
Neal Girandola (33:08)
they make them watch.
Android (33:09)
think it was Rocky
Neal Girandola (33:10)
Well, let's
ask Dave. probably knows Dave when they make them watch.
David Ferrugio (33:13)
They made him watch Snow White? I don't know.
Android (33:18)
He ran for governor for the state of
Neal Girandola (33:18)
Yeah.
Android (33:20)
which is wacky. And yeah. And he said that the aliens were going to support him through his election.
Neal Girandola (33:21)
This is like an 82 or something. 82 or something. Yeah. Several years.
Yeah, that was his campaign. was like vote for the guy who knows the
Android (33:31)
Yep.
The other thing that I found fascinating, he said he tried to take pictures of the
none of the photos ever came
he had it pretty rough afterwards.
was on the TV show. That's incredible. And he was featured in an article in the national inquire.
And it was on, that's incredible that he did live hypnosis with ⁓ sprinkles and they came out with all this stuff.
Neal Girandola (33:54)
I don't know, I don't think hypnosis works. I don't think it would work on me.
David Ferrugio (33:58)
Well, that's one of those things where if you go into hypnosis, not believing it's going to work and not open-minded, it's not going to work.
Neal Girandola (34:04)
See, it's not gonna work on me then.
Android (34:05)
So he said that the aliens did him no harm,
Neal Girandola (34:07)
He's an alien.
Android (34:11)
he had told his son that the implants that they put in him hurt him. And this is what I thought was
said sometimes he could barely
after his visit with the star
David Ferrugio (34:23)
so they didn't hurt me, but I can't walk anymore.
Android (34:26)
saddest thing is that he later was found like digging through trash cans in the
he died. Yeah, he was broke. He was an alcoholic. He had never drank before, they said. He started
Neal Girandola (34:31)
he was broke. He was broke and hungry.
Android (34:36)
died.
Neal Girandola (34:36)
I mean, if
you were abducted by aliens and you were told to dig this well and you'd plant barley and put up the flags and have 13 children and, know, by several different women and, you know, told to do all these things to run your life because it's going to, it's going to be better for you. And that doesn't
I'm going to start
David Ferrugio (34:54)
I think that goes back to you saying, why don't they just download everything? So imagine the overwhelming feeling of knowing all that all at once. It's like shock. So they just get, they gave this guy a little, a little bit and all of a sudden this guy goes quote unquote kind of crazy and on a sad kind of way. Cause it's just, it's a complete paradigm shift. So if this is real, then it's just like, it's a complete shift. If you just realize you're living in a completely different world, how do you react?
Android (35:18)
actually died of cancer in 2009.
David Ferrugio (35:20)
but the aliens didn't hurt him.
Neal Girandola (35:20)
probably from the stress
Android (35:23)
Then his son
said that he believes his dad and he feels horrible for not having believed The stories that his dad told them about the
So after he died, yeah
Neal Girandola (35:32)
After he died, he said this.
Was there anything compelling and that we're missing that would lead you to believe that this is it actually happened to him?
right now I'm not leaning that
Android (35:44)
Sprinkles came forward after the hypnosis. And he said he believed
he wasn't sure if it was a face-to-face encounter he had, if it was mental
or an out-of-body experience that he had.
whether it was...
Neal Girandola (35:58)
but he never said that the
Android (36:00)
No, he never said the guy was nuts. He never said that...
Neal Girandola (36:01)
But I don't think Sprinkles
would say that because Sprinkles was all about, let me talk to the people that say they had these alien experiences.
Android (36:05)
Maybe she's got sprinkles
on the show.
David Ferrugio (36:09)
Why couldn't the guy's name just be Smith? Like the fact that it sprinkles just changes like the whole
Android (36:13)
This is Dr. Leo Sprinkles. Yes, Dr. Leo Sprinkles,
Neal Girandola (36:13)
Dr. Sprinkles.
David Ferrugio (36:16)
to me those get tough. But again, the only thing I lean on is that consistent like again, I've heard so many different stories about the cattle mutilation, the black suits, there was that was that phenomenon, the one where all these kids in in Africa that there's like
Neal Girandola (36:28)
Yep,
David Ferrugio (36:29)
80 to 100 kids all saw the same thing and they, I think sure they were wearing black suits or they saw them in black or something like that. So the only
Neal Girandola (36:29)
Arial School. ⁓
David Ferrugio (36:36)
thing that I can lean on with that actually proving of course is just, it's always consistency. That's like all we can do with these stories sometimes outside of any potential physical evidence, if there's ever any, is just, okay, consistency means something.
Neal Girandola (36:48)
we usually find two though at the same times throughout these reports,
in the seventies is cattle mutilations. The eighties is, ⁓
and it's always, you know, are the aliens are grays or during this timeframe
people are reading these articles and then they're, then they're interpreting them into their own fantasies.
I don't know. Andrew, what are you saying? Are you saying this is a mostly true alien story or not? Where's your belief?
Android (37:14)
I'm gonna go with no. I think this dude was having a serious, serious mental breakdown.
I think he's just lost his shit and it just kept going and kept going and kept
Neal Girandola (37:20)
think you lost his shit and then...
Android (37:26)
yeah.
Neal Girandola (37:26)
so you're
saying it's not a mostly true story. He lost his
Android (37:28)
I think he lost his mind,
Neal Girandola (37:30)
Alright. David, what is your thoughts? You think this is a mostly-trivialian story? Is there anything else you wanted to add to it?
David Ferrugio (37:34)
I don't know. mean, I never know these things to be honest, but I maybe, maybe partially, maybe like the first half is real then led to him losing his mind maybe.
Neal Girandola (37:41)
I mean, I like that too. That that's kind of where I was leaning. Like it did happen. And then he couldn't handle it. To your point, David, that he couldn't handle that experience.
And he's following this instructions, you know, to a T and then
⁓ maybe just started to, maybe just started losing shit.
David Ferrugio (38:02)
But then there's the human aspect. would say that, say it really happened and then he follows the plans and then nothing comes out of it. And then he gets the emotional turbulence of just society upon him, which just cracks the skull. You know what I mean? So it's like a blend of doing of that experience alone, but then the emotional turmoil of just being degraded and not believed and having his whole life shifted in general. So outside of the experience, maybe shaking him some like people go through trauma and all these gnarly experiences, life that break them. So who knows if it was the experience.
or just the emotional turmoil of public scrutiny.
Neal Girandola (38:34)
that's a something to think about too, because in the eighties and seventies and eighties, you actually didn't speak out about a lot of this alien stuff because you were ostracized or you were judged and it was, it was a difficult road to go down today. People are more like, yeah, you had an alien encounter. That's so bad ass. Let's see. You got pictures. Oh, this is very cool. So it would have been maybe easier to, uh,
you because we're just more curious now, more acceptable to, there's definitely something out there. We want this disclosure to happen. But back then, a lot more stress in revealing that, but he didn't seem to be hiding it. He just definitely brought it out. I don't think he expected to
for
David Ferrugio (39:13)
I that's the natural movement of how all these things, like this stuff happens. You have the pioneers that have to go through this shit and then slowly more and more have the courage to come out. And the next wave of people that come out understand that might be scrutiny, but then it kind of breaks the mold of people willing to come out, whether they're copycats or not, that starts happening perhaps for his attention. Again, those swindlers can be possible, but then there's that shift where we are now. It took those first guys to get destroyed for other people to have courage to come out. That's how it works with
almost every movement I feel
Android (39:43)
Or maybe he's part of the alien
Neal Girandola (39:43)
Yeah. Yeah. Or...
Android (39:48)
the aliens took him and they were like, we're gonna give him this, we're gonna give him this, we're gonna give him this, and then we're not gonna give him anything and see what happens.
David Ferrugio (39:48)
yeah.
Yeah, shit, poor
Neal Girandola (39:57)
All right. Well, David, your definitive answer is it may have been mostly true earlier part, but.
David Ferrugio (40:03)
I'm going
to leave this not to the tag of your show, but partially.
Neal Girandola (40:07)
know, we'll accept
Android (40:07)
true
Neal Girandola (40:08)
right, let me weigh in. I'm feeling like this
experience any of this. I think that I think he lost his
probably got hyper focused on actually wanting to put in a well in his
on his land his
think maybe he was a very religious guy. I think he read a lot.
Probably got, down a rabbit
to lose stuff, too much
to shame what happened to
I love the, I love the fantasy of this story, this idea. But I think this was just a long time coming. It's interesting.
David thinks it did happen and it was the pressure that really kind of made him lose his shit or it was an experiment by the aliens or Andrew you're saying is experiment by the Andrew, the aliens.
Android (40:44)
Could
David Ferrugio (40:44)
I
Android (40:45)
be, yeah.
David Ferrugio (40:45)
forgot about the fertilizer. I forgot about the fertilizer. I'm changing my answer. It didn't happen.
Neal Girandola (40:48)
yeah, say it's fertilizer fertilizer back in the seventies was really
think it's really
Android (40:52)
worse than Roundup, bro.
Neal Girandola (40:54)
All right. Well, that's that's it. There you go. Pat McGuire is a man who claimed to be guided by the star people whose life unraveled because of
know, all of our verdicts, make sure you guys weigh in and leave your
we know what you're thinking. And if there's any stories that you would like to hear, or is there anything we missed in this story?
filled us in about the flags of Israel.
⁓ the, ⁓ please put that in the comments as well. ⁓ Dave, I really thank you for being here and being a part of this. What is your one takeaway from today's story?
David Ferrugio (41:24)
my one takeaway, don't build a well.
Neal Girandola (41:27)
aliens
David Ferrugio (41:27)
No, I don't know. It's just it's it's again, I like the style of the show in general just creates dialogue and exploring different avenues. So like the idea of, again, having a conversation and not being scared of going down the crazy rabbit hole and exploring. Again, that's the whole point of the conversation. So a lot of things I said in particular was to push the limits. It's funny when you start saying things publicly on podcasts and you clip me on some things. This is a fucking lunatic. He said that. But we're having a conversation, people. So let's go. Let's get a little weird with the imaginary part of it.
Neal Girandola (41:50)
yeah.
And I'm definitely going to pull some out of context clips from this for sure.
David Ferrugio (41:58)
Yeah, I'm gonna lose all my subscribers, dead talk's gonna get
Android (41:59)
yeah, post it.
Neal Girandola (42:01)
of that, make sure y'all go check out dead talks podcast. If you haven't already, I'm, don't know how you haven't because there's so many freaking people that subscribe to your podcast. I love it. And I thank you for bringing that into our universe.
real conversations with real people and you go where most shows.
don't forget we drop our alien news and entertainment edition every Friday at 10 a.m. all the latest UFO stories and headlines in under eight
we'll be back next week with another case that pushes the edges of what we think is possible until then be kind to the aliens when they get here
thank you so much
David Ferrugio (42:33)
Appreciate you guys, thank you.