Neal Girandola (00:00)
1947, a rancher stumbles on strange wreckage in the New Mexico
Air Force makes it
recovered a flying
24 hours
just a weather
whiplash headline flip sparked 75 years of
cover-up claims, and the biggest alien mystery in American
So what really happened in
UFO, a top secret military
or the blueprint for every government cover-up ever since?
breaking it all down with actor Jeffrey Cantor from Marvel's
The
he
Let's get into
to another episode of Mostly True Alien Stories.
Neal Girandola (00:56)
Welcome back to mostly true alien stories. I'm Neil gerandola. Your alien liaison and riding shotgun in the UFO of love is my cohost and non-believer Andrew Triana. Hi, Andrew.
Android (01:07)
Hi Neil.
Neal Girandola (01:08)
It's good to see you buddy. I love the, I love the Superman bowling
It's. ⁓
Android (01:12)
the back it says Metropolis Lanes. It's really
Neal Girandola (01:14)
I'm glad you're wearing that today because I think it's perfect for our story that we're going to
because today we're going back to the OG of alien encounters.
heading to ground zero Roswell 1947. It's the most famous crash site in UFO history. There were bodies, were weather balloons, interdimensional misfire coverups,
we're going to crack it all open from as many angles as we can and figure out whether we think this is a mostly true alien story or not.
Now, before we dive into today's true alien report, we're definitely going to need some help with this. So we brought on a guest who we think knows a thing or two about drama, mystery, and big
seen him on Marvel's Daredevil and The
He's popped up in House of Cards, The Americans, The Blacklist, and even the Coen Brothers. Hail
an actor with the kind of range that takes him from Broadway stages to directing to
some of the biggest shows on television.
And today,
He's here with us to weigh in on one of the most famous UFO stories ever told. Please welcome Jeffrey Cantor to Mostly True Alien Stories. What's up, brother?
Geoffrey Cantor (02:19)
Hi, hi, you go from the most famous to a not famous. But that's great, that's great. You're using a non-famous actor to help you talk about the most famous. And I think that's right, I think that's about right.
Neal Girandola (02:25)
You
before we get into your list of credentials here, because there's just a ton of
because this is an alien podcast, I have to ask, do you believe in aliens and extraterrestrial life on other planets?
Geoffrey Cantor (02:44)
Of course I don't. I
I really don't.
If there's anything else out there,
not visiting
in a way that we would understand anyway.
I don't believe that there's any sentient ⁓ self-aware being in the universe other than us. And if there is, they're not close enough where it would matter.
Neal Girandola (03:06)
Well then, when you say something like that though, that leads me to believe that you think maybe there's a possibility just because they're not close enough.
Geoffrey Cantor (03:09)
Mm-hmm.
So I don't think
I am open to the possibility that I may be mistaken. However, there is no evidence to support the existence of aliens and certainly no evidence to support the existence of aliens
have ever managed to come here up all places.
if there were, I would have hoped
would have done something
more substantial to impact our lives. And I do not think that the pyramids reflect alien life. Just if you were about to go there, what about the pyramids?
Neal Girandola (03:44)
Wow.
Android (03:45)
To do you are speaking my language. I love this Yep
Neal Girandola (03:46)
Wow, this is two it's two against one today. This is gonna
be this
Geoffrey Cantor (03:51)
So wait,
so I have to ask, are you a believer in extraterrestrial life?
Neal Girandola (03:54)
So.
I definitely am and I'm hopeful for it. Like I'm one of those guys, like I just want to be abducted by aliens, not by anybody else, but by
I think how can there not be in this
other life on other planets, how can there not be in my
you know, Andrew is a non-believer completely.
Android (04:15)
right there with you,
Geoffrey Cantor (04:16)
Look, I think is there the possibility of other life forms that we can't
Sure, we only know what we can know, right? So there may be on some
star that so many light years away that what we're seeing is millions of years ago,
and we were just discovering planets circling stars that may be life the way we know it.
a thing called the anthropic principle of cosmology. Do you know about this? So
Neal Girandola (04:45)
I do not know. Explain this.
I need to Google
Geoffrey Cantor (04:49)
you probably do. So I discovered this quite by accident when I was living in London in 1986.
And I was trying to tape. Remember video tapes? If any of your watchers remember video tapes.
Android (05:03)
Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (05:04)
So I was taping Monty Python
I got the time wrong. I taped this amazing program about this cosmology. I actually ended up getting the book. got through the first, I don't know, three chapters before it became too
sophisticated for me. But it basically suggests that, you know, an anthropic means man centered. And so it basically suggests initially we thought the world revolved.
Neal Girandola (05:21)
Right, above your,
Geoffrey Cantor (05:32)
the universe revolved around the earth. And we discovered that wasn't the case. And we then went to a place where man is inconsequential with respect of dust and all
Neal Girandola (05:34)
Mm-hmm.
Geoffrey Cantor (05:42)
what this suggests is that it's somewhere in between.
That we're part of the universe. We have self-consciousness. We understand many of the principles now that govern the entire universe,
Neal Girandola (05:46)
Okay.
Geoffrey Cantor (05:54)
still discovering them, but our humankind
as a species has come to understand
physical principles that govern the entire known and much of the unknown universe. keep discovering these things.
A photon from the beginning of time behaves the same way on Earth as a photon from today.
And we understand that.
makes our, we are part of the universe. And therefore, if we have self-consciousness and self-awareness,
We actually are part of the universe's consciousness.
And that is unique to us, at least on this planet.
fact that we came into being,
if you look at one degree difference at any step along the
we don't exist.
and so therefore, no matter how long the universe has been in
The chance of there being anything else like us is so, so, so, so
it does not occur to me in all seriousness that there's going to be anything we would recognize or understand that would ever come to this earth and participate in a way that would make sense.
Neal Girandola (07:00)
if that is the case, then why couldn't that happen in another planet in another galaxy,
Geoffrey Cantor (07:06)
chances of our happening was so small that the chances of it happening anywhere else in the same way is even smaller,
Neal Girandola (07:13)
That actually makes it scarier because if aliens, if you live in my world and aliens are coming to Earth, then they're just gonna be pretty
Geoffrey Cantor (07:24)
other way of discussing this is
maybe they already did.
maybe they're microbes, maybe they're microbes without consciousness or maybe we just don't understand or maybe they're really small. Remember years
Neal Girandola (07:28)
Maybe they made us. You couldn't buy into that?
Yeah. Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (07:37)
Right.
Neal Girandola (07:36)
Yup. Right. Right.
Android (07:37)
Yeah,
Neal Girandola (07:38)
My favorite movie.
Geoffrey Cantor (07:39)
But
so
Neal Girandola (07:41)
In book.
you think science is completely against it you think true true science is
Geoffrey Cantor (07:47)
I think the
overwhelming number of legitimate scientists in the world right
say that the likelihood of an extraterrestrial being that has come here and has interacted with human beings in a way that we would recognize, I would say 99.9 % of them would say that's hooey.
Android (08:07)
you say recognize, you mean probing?
Geoffrey Cantor (08:09)
No, no, that's getting to know you.
Android (08:11)
⁓
It's so weird that you mentioned this book because I read a completely different book. read
Neal Girandola (08:18)
You talking about Horton?
Android (08:19)
no, I read anamorphic
they did hair and nails, hair and nails. It's just all about hair.
Neal Girandola (08:23)
did hair and nails. Yeah. Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (08:24)
I think it's the same author.
Neal Girandola (08:29)
It's a
you think that Hollywood has something to do with perpetuating this narrative now? It's because it's really blown out of, do you think they're desensitizing us?
Geoffrey Cantor (08:38)
Thank you.
are we really going to discuss this? we having a grown-up discussion or is...
Neal Girandola (08:42)
I definitely
You've done a lot of shows in sci-fi. So my question would be,
Do you think that there's something perpetuating this conversation
I mean, does Hollywood have anything to do with
Geoffrey Cantor (08:52)
Hollywood plays a very interesting role. Like if you look at like the movie about Kennedy, where you look at dances with wolves, or if
you look at Abraham Lincoln, right? If you look at, there's some films that lean into historical truths. Some are historically accurate. Some are a little less.
Neal Girandola (09:10)
Yeah,
right, right.
Geoffrey Cantor (09:11)
Right
like and like Oliver Stone, but I think they'll have a stone movie back into the Kennedy assassination right where If somebody watched that they would think oh, that's what
some of it happened and some of it was his making movie magic if you watch
Android (09:29)
All
Geoffrey Cantor (09:30)
is an amazing thing to watch. I I believe that world
on
was in foundation. I think that all of these cultures have the exact same language. It's a little less believable.
Neal Girandola (09:37)
Yes.
Android (09:42)
so Abraham Lincoln, vampire killer? He was not a vampire killer?
Geoffrey Cantor (09:46)
Well, I'm
not sure, right? We're not sure. As I said, that falls in that gray area.
Neal Girandola (09:48)
Don't ruin it for him.
Android (09:52)
Okay,
because I believe that. yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (09:54)
Well, I understand, because it was very believable. That's what I'm talking about, this
great area. You don't know.
Neal Girandola (09:59)
you ever experienced anything that you couldn't explain?
Geoffrey Cantor (10:01)
I have not experienced things I can't explain. I've witnessed things that are amazing
I assume have explanation. I remember
was very, very
Neal Girandola (10:12)
⁓ boy.
Geoffrey Cantor (10:15)
doing summer stock up in Vermont
before there were cell phones
so going outside of this farmhouse is probably 10 o'clock at night and the skies up there like it was Weston, Vermont. So you're up in the hills. You're already the further north you go, the thinner.
right, because this intergal force of the Earth, the atmosphere is thinner up there.
And the sky was just amazing. All of sudden I look
I'm looking at a star, which I learned was the Northern Star. I see a circle around
And then all of sudden I see these oaks starting to emanate and the whole thing is turning.
Neal Girandola (10:52)
You saw what? Spokes?
Geoffrey Cantor (10:54)
spokes coming out from so there's a
there's circle around the dot then from the circular spokes
Neal Girandola (10:57)
Yeah.
it's starting to turn.
Was anybody else there with you? Did anybody else see it?
Geoffrey Cantor (11:02)
And I
tell everybody else to come out. Everybody's looking at it. And we're all
it was the beginning of an aurora borealis.
Neal Girandola (11:11)
I bet it was an alien experience and didn't realize it.
Android (11:10)
cool.
Geoffrey Cantor (11:11)
Yeah. I
actually thought that was maybe the only time
Android (11:13)
one.
Geoffrey Cantor (11:16)
in my life where I thought,
Neal Girandola (11:16)
Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (11:18)
⁓
Neal Girandola (11:18)
That's very cool to witness.
Geoffrey Cantor (11:19)
was was spectacular.
skies up there are
If you're a fan of outer space,
should go up to Vermont where there's no light pollution.
Neal Girandola (11:30)
and get really high.
Geoffrey Cantor (11:31)
don't even have to get high, but you could.
Neal Girandola (11:34)
and enjoy
it.
Geoffrey Cantor (11:35)
I bet if you did acid, you would completely see aliens.
I think if you do acid, you do open your brain up to maybe having dual experiences at the same time and to, know, so, so I think acid might open up your mind to other
Neal Girandola (11:46)
Well, there.
and the DMT, think I do. At one point, I do want to try that, you know, that's where they apparently that ⁓ I don't know the whole science.
Geoffrey Cantor (11:58)
That little molecule, right?
Like the miracle molecule or whatever it's called.
Neal Girandola (12:02)
Yeah. And what happens is you literally think you're you've left the universe and
much everybody has almost the same experience when they take
see.
So it opens doors to these. What people explain
is it opens doors to, you know, another,
place, I guess.
Geoffrey Cantor (12:21)
This is a reminder,
it's still your brain.
Neal Girandola (12:23)
I
wonder though, yes. And that's what you could tell yourself. Now they say that it feels like you're gone for like hours, but you're, it's really last under eight minutes.
I wonder how that would affect the two of you. If you guys were to do it, if that you would see something or if you wouldn't see anything, I
let's do it. You guys want to do it?
Android (12:42)
I would probably just piss my pants. probably would
Geoffrey Cantor (12:44)
I'm in.
Neal Girandola (12:45)
would be in, would you be in on that?
They s-
Geoffrey Cantor (12:47)
completely
do that.
Neal Girandola (12:48)
I would too.
All right. Well, listen, we're going get to our story in a second, but I got, want to do a couple of rapid fire questions for you. And it's our segment where we call mostly true alien stories or
All right. So, all right. So here we
Geoffrey Cantor (13:01)
I'm excited.
Neal Girandola (13:03)
Andrew, you can weigh into if you want, but it's our mostly true alien story or not. And it talks about some current events that are happening right now. OK, here we
The interstellar
3i Atlas, that's headed through our solar system, is it a hostile alien mothership coming to destroy us or not?
Android (13:23)
It is. It's
Geoffrey Cantor (13:24)
⁓ It's a rock.
a rock hurtling through space that I think has a lot to tell us,
not with words. think when they figure out what it's made out of, and if they find things, I think it might be really, really
there's two glee-pers going, like, ⁓
Otherwise, why aren't they coming
Why are they bypassing us? Because we know there's no life anywhere else in our solar system.
Android (13:58)
Do know why they're doing it?
they're going to go around the sun and come back on the backside. We're not even going to see them.
Geoffrey Cantor (14:02)
and come back. Understand? You already see him
Neal Girandola (14:06)
an alien probe reach around.
Geoffrey Cantor (14:09)
so that's where you like to go, isn't
Android (14:11)
So, not always,
Neal Girandola (14:11)
Ha
I do believe that there's going to be a large amount of people that are going to be slightly depressed about the outcome of this, but they still won't.
Geoffrey Cantor (14:19)
sure.
Neal Girandola (14:20)
they're so bought in on this being something alien.
Geoffrey Cantor (14:23)
mean,
sort of how I felt about the meds.
it all looks really hopeful. And then all of sudden the truth comes out. It's the same thing.
Neal Girandola (14:27)
That must have been so hard.
Ha ha ha ha.
Geoffrey Cantor (14:35)
Mets are the sports analogy of this
would be the only place where I think anybody could say,
Jeffrey, I mean, you believe in the Mets,
Like.
Is that any different than
Neal Girandola (14:45)
That is true.
Geoffrey Cantor (14:46)
believing in aliens? And I'd have to say,
fair.
Neal Girandola (14:50)
I've really enjoyed talking to you and I'm so glad you came on Mostly True Alien Stories. Are you
ready to get into our featured True Alien Report? All right, let's get into it. If you're new here, here's how the show works. ⁓ Every episode we on Mostly True Alien Stories, we're going to center on one True Alien Report.
Geoffrey Cantor (14:58)
Yes, let's do it.
Neal Girandola (15:09)
And we're gonna, we're gonna break it down. We're gonna weigh in on whether we think it's a mostly true alien story or not. I'm going to go ahead and get into the, to our story of today, which is the Roswell
is the OG of alien conspiracies. And I can't wait to get both, ⁓ Andrew and Geoffrey's take on this story. Okay. Here we
July of 1947 and it was in the desert over New Mexico. Uh, it was there in a quiet fields of the foster ranch
a man named Mac
a discovery on his ranch that kind of would change the world in a sense of the alien
scattered across the scrub land where these strange fragments, were long thin, I beams. were metallic foil that seems
impossibly light, but resist every attempt to cut. They didn't tear. They, couldn't burn it. And, Brazel has never seen anything like this. So, because there's no fire damage, there was just this crash that he found all of this scattered stuff. There was no crater. was just wreckage. And so it was spread
it was like something came apart in midair and it rained down across his land. And so at first he kept quiet about this.
And then he shows some of the pieces to the neighbors and then to the local sheriff. And on July 7th, the sheriff contacts the Roswell Army airfield and they're the home of the 509th bomb group. That's the only unit in the world trusted with nuclear weapons at the
The next day, July 8th, the army then releases a stunning statement after looking through all of this wreckage.
And they say the many rumors regarding the flying disc became a reality yesterday when the intelligence office of the 509th bomb group was fortunate enough to gain possession of a
Now the U S military itself had just confirmed
They're confirming that this is a, they recovered a flying disc and then the story hits the newspapers nationwide. And for one electric moment, it seemed official. The aliens have
then
there was a reversal immediately. Less than 24 hours later, the army held another press conference. And now the wreckage was nothing more than a downed weather
And they brought out sticks, scraps of rubber, and tin foil, laying it all out for reporters. They took photos, and then that was it. They thought the story was
And then for the next three decades, Roswell was little more than just a footnote. So until the late 70s, ⁓
when a retired intelligence officer, Major Jesse Marcel, broke his silence, and Marcel was the man who had first handled the wreckage before it was replaced for the press and photos.
And he says, his words ignited the legend. He said, material was not from Earth. We were told to keep our mouths
Now, from that moment, witnesses began to step forward. Marcel's own son, Jesse Jr.,
He recalled seeing the debris as a child, thin beams marked with symbols like hieroglyphics. Glenn Dennis, a local mortician, claimed a nurse at the Roswell base told him she had seen small alien bodies and an autopsy in progress. That nurse, he said, disappeared shortly afterward. Then Walter Haught, the public information officer who wrote the original flying disc press release.
Signed an affidavit late in life saying he had seen the craft and alien bodies hidden in hangar 84. And then came the whispers of something bigger. Not just a crash, but survivors. Among ufologists, story spread of an entity dubbed eBay one.
Geoffrey Cantor (19:04)
Wait,
Android (19:06)
Yes.
Neal Girandola (19:06)
Ufologists.
You never heard that.
Geoffrey Cantor (19:09)
No.
Okay.
Android (19:10)
Yeah.
Neal Girandola (19:11)
⁓
Android (19:11)
You've met two ufologists right here.
Neal Girandola (19:11)
wow. Yeah, we've self-declared them.
Geoffrey Cantor (19:15)
I didn't mean
to interrupt, your narrative is spellbinding.
Neal Girandola (19:19)
right, let me back
Among the ufologists, stories spread of an entity dubbed EB1. Now he's an extraterrestrial biological entity
heard this story before. know, know Jeffrey has not allegedly recovered. They were allegedly recovered alive from this Ros from Roswell and kept in custody by the US government. And EB1 was said to have survived until the early
and communicating basic information about his species and its home star system before he
to some, that connection laid the groundwork for what would later be called the Serpo Exchange Program. We have an episode, full episode on that entire alien encounter story, so you should check that
This is where a dozen US military volunteers supposedly
to this alien's
Skeptics, of course, offer another explanation. Project Mogul. It's a top secret balloon program designed to detect Soviet nuclear tests and debris from one of these flights. They argue was what crashed at Roswell with the flying disc press release, simply being an overexcited officer jumping the
Now the Mogul project wasn't declassified until the 1990s, of course.
which for believers only fuels more
All right. So,
We do not know what crashed there. Right. So we're going to try and sort this out right now. the mill, again, the military admitted it was a disc and then they backtracked witnesses insisted for decades that they saw something not of this world bodies beams with alien writing a cover up that grew bigger than the more you looked.
And now here we are nearly 80 years later, Roswell is no longer just an event, but it is a cultural
And it has, there's no denying, gave birth to the modern UFO movement and fueled by Hollywood, built an entire tourist industry, and it has turned that town into the capital of alien lore. All right, that's our
Andrew, I know, I think I know where you're going to go with this probably. And Jeffrey, we're going to try and convince you that this is a mostly true alien story. I'm going to hand it over to the two of you. ⁓ Andrew, do you want to fill in anything? And, ⁓ Jeffrey, feel free to, to jump in at any time you have a thought on something. So go ahead, Andrew. What do you got?
Android (21:38)
Yeah, there's,
a lot here. So you mentioned it starting in July. It actually all began on June 24th, 1947.
was a pilot by the name of Kenneth Arnold, who was flying his small craft to
He was looking for a lost US Marine plane. And if he found this plane, apparently there was a big reward.
So he
Neal Girandola (22:01)
mean, Kenneth Arnold was
just a civilian flying his plane. Yeah.
Android (22:04)
civilian pilot. Yep.
he was flying near Mount Rainier. he saw a shiny object in the in his plane mirror. He said it looked like a group of small craft in the air and then they disappeared. Okay. So when he landed in Yakima, he told his friends what he saw,
He gets fueled up. He gets back. He flies back to Pendleton, Oregon was where he had flown from. ⁓
Neal Girandola (22:30)
What time of day
is this? Night? Evening. Okay.
Android (22:31)
It's in the evening. It's in the evening. He
said that this is cool. This is where it was first originated. He said the objects looked like teacup saucers. Hence flying saucers are born. So he, he, he, he did that. He, he coined it. He coined it
Neal Girandola (22:47)
So he invented this. Okay, I got you.
Geoffrey Cantor (22:50)
When would you use word coin?
Neal Girandola (22:51)
Coined it.
Coined it.
Android (22:53)
So
he said when he landed in Pendleton that there were reporters there ready to ask him questions about what he had
Neal Girandola (22:56)
Mm-hmm.
Android (23:00)
So already, so he lands in Yakima. He tells his friends, he didn't see, all he saw was something flying. He'd even find the Marine plane, right? So now we fast. Yeah, he's another case. He's done. He's out of the story, but that's kind of, I just want to give you that little bit of history of flying saucers. Okay.
Neal Girandola (23:00)
already but he didn't find the find any of the debris yeah okay i got you all right he's another character
Yeah, yeah, he's done. I love that. Yeah, that was nice of you in
your Superman bowling shirt.
Android (23:21)
Thanks. You're welcome. So New
Mexico, July 1st, 1947, huge lightning storm, right? ⁓ Army airfield Roswell and White Sands, right? They were tracking radar blips that they couldn't, ⁓ they couldn't figure out what it was. This is recorded. This is reported. Yep. Yep. He said the blips were moving extremely fast, but they really couldn't track
Neal Girandola (23:25)
Yep. OK.
Yeah.
This is reported. That they were tracking this. They couldn't figure out what it was. Okay.
Did they speculate what they thought it was?
Okay. Yeah. I got you.
Android (23:49)
⁓ they didn't say that, you know, a UFO, something is flying there. We don't know what it is. It
made them so crazy that they actually shut the radar off and took it apart and put it back together. Okay. So over the next few nights, things were being seen. just took it apart. They're like, this thing must be malfunctioning. There's no way those blips appeared and disappeared. Right.
Neal Girandola (23:59)
Huh. Okay. Wow. In that same night, in that same night, they just took the radar apart.
Yeah, they're kicking it. They're kicking it. They're hitting it. Yeah, I got
you. Okay.
Android (24:12)
They're like, I'm
going to take this thing apart. They're like screwing and like take, me some of that. Give me that screw job. They're a million. They're just keep going. Right. Just hit it. Kick it. Kick it. It'll work.
Neal Girandola (24:15)
The wrench. Yeah, I got you. Yeah. Yeah.
Unplug it and turn it back on. Okay. You're right.
Android (24:25)
They didn't think about hold the button in for five seconds.
Geoffrey Cantor (24:28)
What's really interesting
is you've made them both sort of done southerners as opposed to like, well, I don't know what you think we should do. Well, what I think we should do is take it apart. I mean, clearly there must be a malfunction. Like you don't have the, you don't have the fancy sort of like, like geniuses, like, I don't know what to do. Let's go take it apart.
Neal Girandola (24:31)
Yeah.
Android (24:32)
Yes.
Neal Girandola (24:34)
Right.
⁓ right.
Yeah,
I hate this job.
Android (24:47)
Okay.
⁓ over the next few nights, a local sheriff by the name of George Wilcox got a lot of phone calls about seeing UFOs, right? So you saying something, something.
Neal Girandola (24:56)
Mm hmm. Okay. Seeing something in this guy, but specifically UFOs are just saying that
Geoffrey Cantor (25:04)
UFO
isn't a UFO before it becomes alien. It's just an unidentified
Android (25:08)
Unidentified flying object.
Neal Girandola (25:09)
Yeah,
Android (25:09)
Right. Exactly. No, they just call it, we saw something in the sky. Actually, I was sitting on my porch.
Neal Girandola (25:09)
but that wasn't a UFO they didn't call it UFO then did they There's some in the sky same guys. There's some up in that sky
Geoffrey Cantor (25:20)
I'm gonna break my radar because there's something in the sky and I don't know what that is. I'm gonna break my radar put it back together. look there's something in the sky. I don't know what that is.
Neal Girandola (25:23)
You
Android (25:23)
Exactly.
Neal Girandola (25:27)
But
Android (25:27)
All right.
Hold up.
Neal Girandola (25:30)
⁓
We don't need no radar, just look up!
Android (25:33)
So.
Geoffrey Cantor (25:34)
Do know what that is? I don't know what that is. Can you identify it? No, I can't identify it. So that means right now that's unidentified. That's right. Is it flying? That sure is. That's an unidentified flying object. I can't identify it. Can you identify it? Nope.
Neal Girandola (25:37)
I don't know.
Android (25:37)
I feel it. I feel it.
Neal Girandola (25:48)
UFO
they coined that these two guys.
Android (25:52)
They coined it.
the other guys didn't, had a U, ⁓ unidentified fly on
Don't know what it is. UF, UFS didn't sound as good as UFO. So, okay. So you had mentioned, Mac brazil, right? Local rancher. ⁓ he found debris. He found debris. Right. And this happened in Corona, New
Neal Girandola (25:57)
Yeah. He's like, I don't know. Yeah. That's something. Yeah. Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (25:59)
UFS
Neal Girandola (26:05)
Yes. Yep. He's the guy that found it. He's the one that founded Debris. Yeah.
Android (26:12)
had metal. said that it looked like aluminum foil and went bent. It would go back into shape.
Neal Girandola (26:15)
Yep.
Crazy. This is what he said. But he also he sh... I mean, I don't know who else saw that happen either. Yeah. Neighbors. Yeah.
Android (26:19)
So the sheriff...
I guess his sons and stuff saw the debris as well, right? Right. So the
sheriff called the army base and they sent out.
Neal Girandola (26:33)
But they didn't he
didn't think to take a picture of it himself. I mean, that's not the days of, ⁓ let me grab that Polaroid. Yeah, but they might know I had cameras, didn't they?
Android (26:37)
No, it's 1947. mean, he'd have to.
Geoffrey Cantor (26:42)
They didn't have cam- Of course they had fucking cameras.
Android (26:42)
Yeah. No, he had one of those cameras. put the put the cloth over your head. He's like, hold it.
Neal Girandola (26:48)
Yeah,
he lit it. Yes, that's what I'm saying. I mean, I feel like
Geoffrey Cantor (26:50)
In 1927 they had cameras.
Android (26:53)
This is New Mexico. Are they really?
Geoffrey Cantor (26:55)
sorry, can I just...
I mean, first of all, that you know so much, that you both know so much about this. I feel like I haven't done my research and I feel woefully uninformed. However...
Neal Girandola (27:08)
No, I know nothing about this. I only learn what I get from him. Honestly,
Android (27:12)
I'm the research guy. dig it. Cause I'm a debunker. I'm looking to debunk this thing. So I'm going to find out everything.
Neal Girandola (27:13)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (27:16)
OK, so can I
just ask some questions before you continue? What other what other technology
Neal Girandola (27:20)
Yes, absolutely.
Geoffrey Cantor (27:23)
existed in 1947? The Germans had extraordinarily high tech stuff happening in their aerospace during World War two, like like frighteningly accurate stuff. I'm reading a book on Churchill and the development of of a process whereby you can
fly at night. So the big shift in World War II from World War I is you could bomb at night without seeing stuff because they developed radar systems that would ⁓ triangulate and pinpoint spots.
Neal Girandola (27:53)
Mm-hmm.
Geoffrey Cantor (28:02)
So there was already the beginning of technologies that allowed things to fly great distances, to be accurate.
Android (28:10)
Right.
Geoffrey Cantor (28:11)
to be made out of materials that people would not recognize or not know. And ⁓ it would make, it would be fully reasonable to assume that if Germany was doing it, because this was the big thing for the US,
everybody is trying to do the same thing.
Android (28:30)
Yeah,
so.
Neal Girandola (28:31)
Well, you know
where that technology came from, right? Because, there are reports that it came from crashed alien craft and they took the technology from there.
a guy from Lockheed Martin who did a video clip in the, think in, ⁓ might've been 93 or something like that, where he revealed that there was, he didn't say which crash, but in the, in the forties, in the forties,
Android (28:39)
Yep.
Neal Girandola (28:53)
they recovered technology that helped
them to build night
Geoffrey Cantor (28:57)
asking
really is is the context of this crash where I got a farmer is gonna go I don't know what this is it's very possible that whatever he doesn't know what it is was developed on earth by people who are just more technically advanced in terms of the new materials are creating fiberglass right that that that is finding something that well looks like tin foil super light and I've been to it it was like well
Android (29:12)
Yeah. Yeah.
Neal Girandola (29:16)
Good point. That's good point.
Geoffrey Cantor (29:25)
Maybe that's the skin of a new right? I'm just saying.
Neal Girandola (29:27)
Sure.
But you got to take into all consideration of everything that happens with that. one, if, the government says it's an alien disc and then 24 hours later comes back and says, Nope, it's a weather balloon.
There's just this discrepancy in what people are confirming.
Geoffrey Cantor (29:43)
Right. So
again, I, then the next question
initial military were they assigned like, if you have military who don't know what the other part of the military is doing, which happened often, right? So if the military guys also don't know what it is, and then when they, when they meet the higher ups who do know what it is and they say, no, no, no, we're not talking about that. And so then they make things worse by
Neal Girandola (29:55)
Yeah, right, right,
Geoffrey Cantor (30:12)
shifting the shit out and lying and so you're helping promote the conspiracy theory because you are hiding something but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're hiding that.
Neal Girandola (30:14)
Mm-hmm.
Android (30:21)
Right.
Right.
Neal Girandola (30:26)
not necessarily mean
it's alien tech. Alright, yes, good point, valid point. Alright, Andrew, fill us in.
Android (30:30)
Okay. So,
so the sheriff, the sheriff calls the army base and they send out major Jesse Marcel, ⁓ to check out the rubble, rubbish that, you know, they found the debris that they found the official press release. As you mentioned, Neil, ⁓ said that they had found a UFO. That is fact, right. But later, press conference, they found strange disks, but the next day the army retracted that. But I discovered that a general Roger Rammy.
⁓ he demanded to get the debris. He wanted all the debris brought to the, to the army base, nobody to have it. Right. They said it was a mistake. They were mistaken by reporting that it was a UFO, that it was actually a weather balloon, foil, rubber, plastic. And what's weird is that Mack Brazel, our rancher friend retracted his story as well. He said, no, it was not UFO stuff. was just a weather balloon stuff. Yeah.
Neal Girandola (31:01)
⁓ You didn't want anybody to have it. Okay. No.
He did.
Android (31:27)
So they're saying that they use some sort of threatening or scare tactics on him, right? they didn't know. Maybe, maybe, maybe. So there's a couple of guys that are pretty, that I'm going to bring up before I go back to that. Dr. Bob
Neal Girandola (31:31)
They didn't pay him.
Okay. Okay.
Android (31:42)
1968 to 1967, did
Neal Girandola (31:42)
Yeah. Calling Dr. Bob
Android (31:46)
secret study on UFOs, real or not, right? And then there was Dr. This was 1968 to 67.
Neal Girandola (31:46)
Yep.
Wait, when? When?
So he did
it later. I got you. Yeah.
Okay.
What? are you bringing these guys up?
Android (32:10)
And because
I'm going to, it goes all the way back to the stuff I'm going to reveal about Roswell that they showed. Okay.
Neal Girandola (32:16)
Gotcha. Okay. Okay. Go
Android (32:18)
he had heard about Roswell for the first time. So we're going to go back now, 1947, uh, Jesse Marshall spoke out Marcel, major Marcel spoke out later and he talked about the materials that he
All of this is happening like crazy times, right? So 1947 in July, there was over 300
Unidentified flying objects in the sky over 300 sightings in July, right? ⁓
Neal Girandola (32:42)
Okay. Did anybody
describe? Did you get descriptions of what they're seeing?
Wonder how similar they were. Okay.
Android (32:48)
objects in the sky, right?
Geoffrey Cantor (32:52)
And
was this before or after Roswell?
Android (32:57)
This was during and after before, during and after. Yeah. Yep. Yep.
Neal Girandola (32:58)
This is before. Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (33:00)
So Roswell is announced.
Everybody knows about it. And then there's 300 more sightings.
Android (33:07)
Yep,
people start seeing stuff, they start calling people.
Geoffrey Cantor (33:09)
There were
not 300 sightings before you saw the one that crashed.
Neal Girandola (33:12)
No, it was
before, during, and after. So I think accumulation of it. Yeah.
Android (33:13)
Right. Yeah, it's this whole time in July. In
all of July, there was over 300 sightings reported.
Geoffrey Cantor (33:21)
I'm just but I think it's it's an important. It's an important point, right? So if there's no sightings and a crash and then all of a sudden 300 sightings, one could make the argument that ⁓ I see it. I saw something too. As opposed to a bunch of sightings and then a crash.
Neal Girandola (33:23)
It's important. Yes. Yes.
Android (33:24)
Yeah, yep, yep.
Neal Girandola (33:31)
you've done it right
But you also
have to go back to that time period. People may have been afraid to report things. And then once something is ⁓ verified or validated in the new in the press,
Android (33:48)
Right.
Neal Girandola (33:54)
then people will say, yep, I saw that too.
Android (33:58)
Yep.
Geoffrey Cantor (33:58)
And also human nature is, ⁓ I saw two. Right, I so. Right, I think I would say that's much more likely. I just, again, just trying to use some logic here. Let's just say this is an alien craft.
Neal Girandola (34:03)
Yeah, yeah, that is true. Yep. Yep. Yep.
No, this is.
Android (34:13)
now.
Geoffrey Cantor (34:15)
Does it not make more sense that there would have been a lot of sightings, right? Because a lot, like most of them don't crash.
Neal Girandola (34:15)
Yes.
Geoffrey Cantor (34:24)
I mean, if they're that advanced, why is it crashing into Earth? Like they just traveled from really, really, really far away.
Android (34:29)
Dude you gotta watch
you gotta watch projects nerd mode. Yeah
Neal Girandola (34:31)
We bring that up all the time.
Geoffrey Cantor (34:33)
So,
so, but I'm just saying that it would make more sense to me if there's like, oh my god, there are 300, one of them crashed as opposed to one crashes like, oh, all of a sudden there's 300, are they looking for
anyway.
Android (34:46)
So, right, so that was right. Right, so.
Neal Girandola (34:46)
Why, yeah, why didn't anyone come look for it? Right. Okay.
Geoffrey Cantor (34:49)
Maybe they're different aliens. Maybe they're not friends.
Neal Girandola (34:53)
Yeah, but it's just different
aliens just happen to be in the same area at the same
Android (34:56)
Right.
so.
Neal Girandola (34:56)
All right,
Andrew, get to your thing and then let's weigh in.
Android (34:59)
I'm
getting to it. Okay. So five alien bodies were discovered. There was actually a crash. Now that you mentioned that, Jeffrey, there was a crash on July the
Reporters came and they wanted to report on the five, supposedly five alien bodies that were discovered.
Neal Girandola (35:07)
Yeah.
Android (35:15)
And that also takes us to, our friends at Serpo as well. So that stuff was put, everything was put into a crate and shipped to Fort Worth,
And everybody that was around there on the airfield was told, tell no one what you saw.
Neal Girandola (35:29)
reported that?
Android (35:30)
he was, Marcel said it. Yeah. Marcel said it. Okay.
Neal Girandola (35:30)
Marcel said it? Okay. Okay.
Android (35:33)
⁓
they got all the people that had witnessed anything and they were all warned that if you tell anyone what you saw will kill
So they had
Neal Girandola (35:42)
Okay.
Geoffrey Cantor (35:42)
kill you.
Android (35:43)
we'll kill you they were warned with death. Is what they were said they were
Neal Girandola (35:46)
crazy.
Android (35:47)
with death so now we're going to fast forward to nineteen ninety three okay Roswell's done right I mean it happened on all that the military released a statement.
Neal Girandola (35:52)
Okay.
Android (35:57)
saying that it was a lie, that Roswell was just a complete and utter lie. Congress asked for all of the Air Force reports on Roswell. The Roswell report, they later said, you mentioned this earlier, Neil, they talked about Project
which was a secret surveillance program with, in 93, right, with balloons, right, a nice balloon thing that happened, okay.
Neal Girandola (36:14)
Yeah. Right. But they came out with this in 93.
Yep. Yep.
Android (36:25)
So I mentioned our buddies, ⁓ Dr. Friedman, right? So they did all these photographs, and Roswell in the forties with the guy withholding the debris, right? They had general Ramey there holding a
Neal Girandola (36:29)
Yeah.
Android (36:40)
But because photography was so awful back then, people have tried to see what was on the letterhead, right? What was being said in the letter. This is where it gets really kind of
So Dr. Friedman, ⁓ he actually was able to get the negatives, somehow get the negatives of that
And in the early 2000s, he was able to decipher through the negatives, what the letter
I mean, if you go and look up this photograph of Dr. General Ramey, you'll see him holding a letter, right? And you can.
If you try to zoom in on it, can't see, but Friedman said, I've got the negatives for this. I'm going to show you what it says. So the letter says what he could decipher spacecraft to be shipped. Urgent victims, wreck mistake story show weather balloons.
Neal Girandola (37:32)
⁓ that was on the letter.
Hmm, interesting.
Android (37:37)
Okay, so
1997 there's a report from the Air
talked about, uh, project mogul, right? It was a high dive operation, which means that they put dummies. This is where we get the bodies. They put dummies in a, in a balloon and drop them just to see it. Bodies being dropped from a, from a balloon. Okay.
Neal Girandola (37:55)
They were, they were just testing out to see what happens to bodies being dropped from a weather balloon. That's crazy. Okay.
Yeah, I'm not weighing in yet, okay. Yep.
Android (38:03)
Now this is where it is crazier right in 1953
is when actually project mogul happened not 1947
Neal Girandola (38:12)
Okay, so after the fact, so they created this, sounds like. Okay, go ahead. All right.
Android (38:14)
Yes. So if you look
at the time comparison with all of this, you'll see that that's what's going on, right?
Neal Girandola (38:19)
Okay.
Is there any
other facts you want to lay on us so we can begin to weigh
Android (38:26)
Yeah. So there was,
Neal Girandola (38:28)
Because I think we're there.
Android (38:29)
last little bit here. 2013, a document was found in the FBI files dated from March 22nd, 1950, talking about the crash, the ship, the aliens, and apparently in 1950 that was sent over to Hoover for him to decipher. In 19...
Neal Girandola (38:30)
Yeah.
and what Hoover had to say.
Android (38:49)
I, he didn't, there's no, there's no record of what him saying. And then in 1972, a document witnesses said the alien found stayed in Los Alamos until 1952, EB1, where he bit the dust. Yep. Based on the crashed aliens. Yep.
Neal Girandola (38:50)
There's no record of that. Right. Yeah.
Right. Yeah. And then they planned the whole project Serpo based on that. Yeah. So essentially
this, is essentially the really core of the story is the alien craft land crashed. were bodies recovered. One survived and that EB1 was the one who taught them some technology or, and, and, and then they prepped got 12 volunteers to take to project Serpo for an alien exchange
Android (39:19)
Yeah.
Yep. Yep.
Neal Girandola (39:30)
right. So this,
this story, was the spawn of, of really lot of the, all the UFO conspiracies, the conversations, the encounters, everything that we are living today. And so now I'm going to ask you,
Android (39:34)
Everything. Right. Yep.
Neal Girandola (39:44)
I'm going to have Jeffrey weigh in first. Jeffrey, do you
is this a mostly true alien story or not? And tell me why you think. Either way.
Geoffrey Cantor (39:53)
I
I think not.
the US government was hiding something. My gut is that there are no bodies and there was no live alien, because how the fuck is he going to
an alien that exists, there's no way he's going to say, oh my god, I'm so happy you found me. Do I have a headache?
I think I hurt my
Neal Girandola (40:13)
Well, the story
does go that they had him long enough that they did learn to communicate with him.
Android (40:17)
Yeah, they communicated
Geoffrey Cantor (40:18)
Really?
Android (40:19)
with
Geoffrey Cantor (40:20)
Really? How did they stay alive in our atmosphere?
Android (40:19)
Yep. Yeah. Good. You gotta, you gotta watch Project Serpo. You gotta watch the episode. You'll hear everything. He didn't last. He died. He died.
Neal Girandola (40:26)
Yeah, he didn't last. He didn't last long, but he did.
Geoffrey Cantor (40:29)
No.
Neal Girandola (40:30)
three.
Android (40:30)
Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (40:30)
Do know
it wasn't he? How do we know it was he? Does he have a penis?
Neal Girandola (40:33)
They do refer to him as a he, but...
Android (40:34)
As him, yeah,
because they do refer to as females there too. they, they, they told them. They told them.
Neal Girandola (40:37)
Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (40:39)
How do they know the difference?
Neal Girandola (40:40)
I don't know, but
let me bring it back in just based on what we're...
Geoffrey Cantor (40:41)
So basically what you said, I would have to say I'm still extremely cynical. I don't think there's enough compelling evidence. I don't think that a farmer out in the middle of nowhere who finds things he doesn't understand and his son are necessarily the best witnesses. Do I think that there are cover-ups by the government about any number of things? Absolutely. Do I think that they're covering up
Android (40:44)
I'm a
dude.
Geoffrey Cantor (41:09)
the holding of a live alien
aliens too because then I would think that there would be at some point more positive science coming out of those discoveries even if we don't know them.
Neal Girandola (41:24)
Well, we don't
know what science came from that.
Android (41:25)
right but
if they don't if they didn't fly to aliens and why make up this whole story about the bodies because people saw bodies why make up the whole story about bodies falling out of the sky and fingers being broken off and heads being broken off I mean why do that if it's not true
Neal Girandola (41:38)
That's interesting.
Geoffrey Cantor (41:40)
just think it's really interesting
how aliens from another, from so far away,
just happen to have the same physical characteristics as
it makes it less believable.
that they have human characteristics makes it far less believable than if they found a blob in a machine that somehow they could communicate with through some sort of metaphysical brain meld.
Android (41:52)
Right. Right.
Neal Girandola (42:09)
what do you think it was? It was just government technology?
Geoffrey Cantor (42:13)
I believe that the US during World War II was in the middle of developing what was at the time the most sophisticated weaponry and preventative stuff that we could and was trying new things that were failing.
Neal Girandola (42:24)
Interesting.
Geoffrey Cantor (42:30)
that sending dummies up would make complete sense.
what we did.
our first space flights were unmanned, then we used dogs, then we used monkeys, before we used
Neal Girandola (42:43)
very valid point.
Geoffrey Cantor (42:45)
is that they could have even been monkeys.
Android (42:47)
No. Right. Your gut is no, right? This is not...
Neal Girandola (42:50)
That would be awful. It would just be awful if I was in the field and monkeys were dropping down on me and dying.
Geoffrey Cantor (42:55)
But
the monkeys aren't dropping down, you're finding them on the field. It's not like they're falling out of the sky like rain. But it would make perfect sense to me that a
Neal Girandola (43:00)
It's raining monkeys!
Geoffrey Cantor (43:08)
right? Another primate like a chimp or an ape that was used often in testing our technology in terms of space travel. If they are burned to a crisp,
and all the hair is gone that they might look really really fucking weird but they would have hands and nose and necks and mouths and penises.
Neal Girandola (43:30)
All right. So Jeffrey says it is not a mostly true alien story. So Andrew, it is time for you to weigh in. Do you think this is a mostly true alien story or not and why?
Android (43:40)
I find it fascinating that ⁓ in that, at that, at that air force base, they were actually testing ⁓ German weapons that they had found. They were testing German radar. They were testing all of these things at the same time. Right.
Neal Girandola (43:42)
I love when you cross.
At the
Android (43:54)
I'm going to go with no, this is not a mostly true alien story. This is some sort of us tech.
was a testing gone wrong is what I'm going to say testing gone bad and maybe people died. Maybe it was a mancrafted ship that people died in possible. So no.
Neal Girandola (44:15)
Okay. All right. So
you both say it is not a mostly true alien story. Now it's my turn to weigh in on the Roswell
And I first have to say that I'm really disappointed in the two of you because this is the OG of alien encounters. This is where it all started. This is the reason we're sitting here right now
on a podcast talking about aliens. It's because of Roswell.
Geoffrey Cantor (44:39)
So wait, wait, wait,
wait.
was there ever before this?
any mention or citing of anything. You're calling this the OG. So,
Neal Girandola (44:47)
There.
Android (44:51)
Yes, actually there were sightings that were reported. Yeah. There have been sightings all the way back to 1700s I found, right? As big as this, right? Yeah.
Neal Girandola (44:53)
There were sightings prior, yes. Yeah. But nothing spawned, nothing spawned this as big as this. It all always goes back to Roswell.
Geoffrey Cantor (45:02)
Just for us. Is this
the first crash? like in the 1700s?
Neal Girandola (45:07)
Of aliens
recovered that aliens recovered from crash that I know of. Yeah. That I know of. That's right. He's got all of them in his basement. Yeah.
Android (45:11)
Right. Right. Unless you talk to Haimim-san, he'll tell you that the Masuka Mami's are aliens,
Neal Girandola (45:18)
So I do think this is a mostly true alien
I do think the government was covering it up. I think something happened.
I do believe they recovered an alien. I believe that that is the case. I think they got technology from it.
Android (45:29)
Beep beep.
Neal Girandola (45:31)
that we're using today. And I do think there's still stuff that they have that they haven't even figured out yet. And that's why I do believe that this is I have to I have to say Roswell is a mostly true alien story. I just have to otherwise I wouldn't be doing this podcast. So it is true. It is a true mostly true alien story.
the one that launched 1000 conspiracy theories. ⁓
Geoffrey Cantor (45:54)
It launched a thousand spaceships.
Neal Girandola (45:57)
That's
right. We had debris in the desert, a panic press release, a military retraction and decades of conflicting testimony. Jeffrey says it was monkeys testing out alien government hidden treasures. I'm just kidding. I know you didn't say that. I know. But yeah, he says not Andrew's leading mostly true as well. And I say it is Andrew is not leaning that it's mostly true. It's not true at all.
Geoffrey Cantor (46:10)
I don't think I said it quite that way, but it could be.
Android (46:13)
He said monkeys.
Well, think it's a
mostly true story. think some craft crashed, but I'm not going to say it was aliens.
Geoffrey Cantor (46:27)
the story is true
the analysis is way off
Neal Girandola (46:29)
But it's not an alien encounter. Right.
Android (46:30)
But it's not an alien encounter.
Yeah.
Neal Girandola (46:34)
Well, Jeffrey, I want to thank you for being on
What's your takeaway? Give me one takeaway from this time with us.
Geoffrey Cantor (46:40)
One takeaway
is that I have discovered that you actually believe in UFOs ⁓ and that's super curious to me.
I didn't realize that there was such a,
that there was still, or maybe it's even growing a movement of people who actually believe in this.
wish I found it more surprising. I'm not finding it scary yet, but, ⁓ I have a big problem with blind faith generally in any direction. ⁓ I think.
Neal Girandola (47:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yes.
Geoffrey Cantor (47:12)
I'm an evidence-based kind of guy and ⁓ I think the evidence overwhelmingly does not support
life that we would recognize.
Neal Girandola (47:24)
Fair enough.
All right, that's it for today. All of you listening, please subscribe, drop us a rating, leave a comment, and just share it with your friends that don't believe in aliens because they'll enjoy this as well.
Geoffrey Cantor (47:28)
Bye.
And for all of you who believe in aliens, I respect your right to believe anything you want.
Neal Girandola (47:40)
That is... Thank you. Thank you for saying that because there are a lot of people that sacrilegious to not believe in aliens and that's true.
Android (47:48)
Yeah.
Geoffrey Cantor (47:48)
I get
Neal Girandola (47:49)
Alright, well can't thank you enough, Jeffrey. Andrew, great job. We'll see you on the next one. Until then, be kind to the aliens when they get here. Thanks, boys.
Geoffrey Cantor (47:51)
My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. This is great fun.
Android (47:53)
Awesome.